ive been silently keeping up with this argument and i gotta say Valen you're really fucking petty

Onida replies to all your arguments by breaking them down and debunking them all while you reply to his by saying "as expected" "saw that one coming" "something about a bet which he rightfully ignored twice" "and then post your what if's" like if your theories hold any weight at all

for example onida says it takes 8 people (all around the strength of ainz) to take down rubedo and they all need to use WCI since 1 WCI user is equal to 3 upper top tier players then 8 is equal to 24 and by extension it would take 24 upper top tier players to beat rubedo.

while you say stuff like "ainz might have a world item that works like an EMP to her WCI" which first off he doesn't and secondly that wouldn't make any fucking sense cus WCI don't work on other WCI,

the amount of baseless things you try to use as arguments really baffles me

"superman can beat Pikachu"

"nope Pikachu's attacks might count as magic which superman is weak to even tho there's literally nothing to imply Pikachu's thunderbolts are magic based"

that's literally what you sound like and its annoying as hell

but anywhos you try to say this girl (who we just established to be 24 times stronger than a top player) cant kill ainz in 1 combo since it takes 5 players to beat a raid boss and rubedo is equal to 24 that's almost the equivalent of 5 raid bosses comboing ainz (let me just remind you that asura (the level 90 raid boss) almost killed ainz with one attack let alone an entire combo)

you try to justify your stupidity by saying "well we don't know if rubedo's a damage dealer" even tho its literally stated she's the most powerful npc in nazarick since you seem to be retarded let me give you the definition of powerful

"having great power or strength." that came from a simple google search

@Onida good job putting up with this guy for 2 days straight, i would have snapped at him for being retarded after the 5th comment

You do realize I have said nigh nothing the whole time, correct? How to deal with a baseless "what if"? If you do not want to talk about, just say "Yeah, but unlikely". If you want to, you have to prove the impossibility, which is... a nigh impossible task when talking about fiction. Thus, I took this stance, see where it goes.

I mean, denying the possibility of Deus Ex Machina in an anime is rather... short-sighted.

Instead of arguments, I used truisms or conjecture, similar to my opposition. I never did it this heavy so far, so it was a fun experience. Then, I tried to include ad hominem. Admirably, that has been ignored most of the time(That's actually really rare). In the course of the "discussion", I tried to find patterns. They were a little to repetitive for my taste... answering repition(mine) with repition of course does not work. At that point, I lost interest.

Sidenote: If a meteor falls onto Rubedo's head at the start of the fight, Ainz wins. That is true, it is possible and it means he has a, laughably small, chance. Can't be so difficult to say "Yeah, but that's not worth talking about, due to how unlikely it is.".

yes you're right you said nigh nothing now you should try saying literally nothing.

i have no problem with your little theories what gets me pissed is your condescending way of speaking for example

"But well, still talking about most of these points actually proves a certain point you chose to ignore time and time again T_T This is really sad."

(btw he obviously wasn't missing any point you're just full of shit)

and then theres the problem with you bringing up weird what ifs to try and find a way for ainz to have a chance at victory and when onida debunks the possibility of said what ifs you just completely ignore it or try to come up with a what if to counter his debunk on your what if

for example

Onida: rubedo would kill ainz in a single combo

You: theres nothing to sudgest that, its just an empty claim

Onida: shalltear can be killed with one combo by players and she has higher health and defense than ainz so rubedo who has higher damage than those players can definitely one combo ainz

You:"what if" rubedo isn't a damage dealer she might just have technique

Onida: rubedo is stated to be the strongest in terms of melee combat in nazrick so shes a damage dealer

You "what if" their talking about a different kind of strength? "strength" can mean a lot of things

Onida: shes stated to be the most powerful in nazarick

(Me: i gave you the definition of powerful since you obviously don't understand what it means)

You: "what if what if what if"

Onida: rubedo is powered by the caloric stone

You: "what if" ainz has an EMP-like world item to mess up rubedo's world item (Take bait? Would be fun).

Onida: ainz has no such world item and even if he did world items don't work on other world item holders

You: looks for another what if

and while yes it wouldn't be hard to say your what ifs are not worth talking about since the chances are too low, it also wouldn't be hard for you to shut your mouth and not bring up these stupid what ifs in the first place

plus im pretty sure the reason onida didn't say im not gonna bother talking about your what ifs is because

1) earlier you were literally trying to argue that this is a question about if ainz has a chance so despite the chances of your what if being stupidly low and just stupid in general he decided to throw u a bone and discuss them

and 2) he's just a patient guy unlike me seeing as how he put up with your shit for 2 days and here i am blowing a fuse after 2 messages

anyways im done talking to you i said what i had to say and i hope you have a shitty day

I have made it an active point to point out possible, if far-fetched, scenarios. Doesnt make them impossible. Actual discussion has stopped loong time ago, when no one was willing to compromise their point.

And yeah, I have a condescending way of speech. Although, I don't mean it as condescending as you might think.

Oh, and about the "chances" thing... Yeah, I had a different point of view. I was arguing for Ainz chances, he was not. This is a misunderstanding as, fundamentally, we do not really disagree on that. I noticed this wouldn't be worth the effort to rectify, hence I chose another route. Put under scrutiny, you can see the modus operandi behind this, if necessary knowledge about the semantics and the respective fallacies has been acquired.

The idea for doing this sparked after digging a bit deeper into, especially modern day, political speeches - they tend to say nothing, pretend to say something and are very rarely outright "false".

Dam I wasn’t here talking with ya’ll for a few days and things turn out into this xD

So first of all, this was supposed to be about Ainz fighting Rubedo WITHOUT WCI, so since we’re including those now, I’m taking it that everyone agrees Rubedo is undeniably able to beat Ainz.

So I’ve read a bit and I see what the other dude is saying about your what if’s Val, like I don’t completely disagree with you that Ainz does have that chance, no matter how small at winning against Rubedo, but let’s be honest, it’s like winning the lottery man, and do you really believe Ainz would be able achieve something of the sort of having the RNG’s with him, and having a meteor hitting Rubedo?

That aside, I don’t necessarily agree with Wonder’s statement of Rubedo being equivalent to as much as almost 5 raid bosses though. If that’s the case and it somehow is canon, then that would first of all, be the end of this argument, since a being equivalent to 5 raid bosses, even if it’s five of the weakest raid bosses, would be nigh impossible to win against, whether you have a WCI or not, and two, Rubedo would basically be equivalent to 25+ Ainz, since you’re saying that she would be close to 25 top tier players, and Ainz himself isn’t considered a top tier player yet, so if she is that op, then that will probably be the end of argument, Ainz loses no matter what he tries. I’d say that it wouldn’t be so high, like maybe somewhere between 1-2 raid boss level, since she is said to be a raid boss level ‘NPC’, and her being an npc is important, since npc’s would be different from a raid boss, and have typical npc sort of restrictions. Also if she is as op as you say being equivalent to almost 5 raid bosses, well then none of Val’s arguments of what ifs would be valid at all. All of those could be thrown out the trash as no what if’s will give Ainz a chance of beating something similar in power as 5 raid bosses, in Yggdrasil and the new world.

However, I’m still arguing on the side of Rubedo being able to beat Ainz though, with or without WCI, since it has been said that only floor 8 npc’s who’re specialized for combat equipped with WCI’s(still don’t know how much of them they need) would be able to take down Rubedo, showing how strong she would be, and I don’t think Ainz would be stronger than the npc’s of floor 8 when they fight together with a WCI.........

Ainz does have a chance of beating her though. He does have a 100% chance of killing Rubedo with the use of.......Longinus(not sure if he has it actually lol)..... :P

Come on he gets wiped, she gets wiped, win? Maybe? Lol ?

Double wipe sounds fun. But yeah, without asspull protagonist powers, Ainz cannot win. So far, he hasn't exhibited the typical anime deus ex(Evil Eye kinda did vs Entoma, so overlord is not safe from that x)

you missed waaaay too much man, heres a quick recap

i said rubedo beats ainz with no difficulty if he has no world items

vaylen said "what if" the poster isnt asking about who beats who and is instead asking if ainz has any chance at all no matter how small they may be

i said his chances are not very high since its stated he would most likely loose when fully equipped (with 11 WCI and the staff of ainz ooal gown) and im sure rubedo can kill him with a single combo

vaylen said there nothing to back up that claim

i said shalltear is said to be killable by players with a single combo in volume 11 and she has higher defense and health than ainz so rubedo whos stronger than players should be able to beat ainz whos more fragile than shalltear in one combo easily

Valyen said "what if" rubedo isnt a damage dealer

I said rubedo is stated to outshine the 3 melee specialist of nazarick in terms of melee combat

Vaylen said that doesnt mean in terms of pure power it might be technique because its a vague quote

I said shes also stated to be the most powerful in nazarick so its definitely in terms of pure power

then he ask me about rubedo's power core

i explained the implications of the caloric stone being rubedo's power core and stuff

Vaylen said "what if" rubedo power core is a weakness

i said no that would be like saying the human heart is a weakness (which was a bad comparison but whatevs)

Vaylen said the human heart is a weakness if its destroyed the human cant fight

I said that applies to any part of the human body so by that logic the human body would be the human body's weakness

Vaylen insist on rolling with this weakness thing and says "what if" ainz has a world item that works like an EMP to rubedo's core

(take bait? that would be fun)

I decide to "take the bait" and explained why that wouldnt work because ainz has no such world item and world items dont work on other world item holders

then he says something about "what if" a meteor hit rubedo or something i just sopped reading after that

(btw if a meteor hit rubedo when the fight starts she wouldnt die, im not sure if you're a LN reader or not but in volume 12 its shown that demiurge has the ability to casually drop huge meteors and i HIGHLY doubt demi (the 3rd weakest floor guardian) can beat rubedo)

anyways after that iWonderHowLong says he's been reading along so far and he's sick of Vaylens condescending attitude and obscure "what ifs" and he looses his shit

i left out alot of Vaylens "what if theories" and my responses cus i forgot them

at one point he said what if rubedo afraid of people with two Mos in their name or something like that

i didnt bother responding to that one

XD but what if Ainz actually bea...........

I’m jk lol

Poor Ainz just ain’t strong enough man xD

Him being an Overlord grants him quite a few advantages in the NW like his emotion surpression, and his whole 700+ spells, but his class just ain’t suited for these types of fights xD, i’d think Ainz could be a top tier player if he had chosen a better class that would be better in pvp and not completely rely on items xD

I mean he is pretty skilled too, it’s just that him being a mage doesn’t exactly make it easy for 1v1’s q.q

3 things i wanna say

1) this fight makes no sense cus if world items are not allowed and rubedo's power core is a world item then technical she shouldnt be able to function in this fight cus she cant use her power core

2) congrats to protagonist0012 for making the longest discussion pole on the wiki (i think its the longest atleast) even tho its a completely one sided fight that shouldn't cause much discussion

3) this should have been about fully geared ainz (all 9 of his WCI the SoAOG and maybe gargantua) verses rubedo would be a lot more fair

maybe rubedo is one of the seven deadly sin