Talk:Zesshi Zetsumei/@comment-67.83.195.85-20180816234126/@comment-45.56.46.26-20180817032441

It's apparent that once people in the New World "awaken", they can gain levels just by intense training, though live combat has advantages (especially if you can get paid for it). So Zesshi doesn't need to actually have live opponents, in fact if they were to find some and offer them up to her probably all that would happen is that their suck would rub off on her.

Capt. BS estimates that ZZ is as strong as Shalltear with no caster levels or equipment. Honestly, that's a huge range, Shalltear has 20 racial levels and 80 job levels, and we don't know how many of her job levels are caster levels, though a lot of them must be because she can cast a lot of spells and has a large mana pool. She seems superior in raw casting stats to Narberal or Lupusregina (the latter being maybe a more apt comparison because she has divine rather than arcane caster levels). On the other hand, from Momon/ga's stats we can see that even arcane casting levels still bolster physical attack strength by about a third of warrior levels. Cleric type levels seem to have more even split between physical attack gains and casting ability. Shalltear's build seems to emphasize balance and a "one-man party" build. So say she's got about 50-60 caster levels, and say that those count as half warrior levels (honestly, I think she must have more caster levels than this, or levels that count as caster levels, because she can spam-cast maximized 9th tier spells).

That could cause Capt. BS to estimate her level from 70-75, meaning way stronger than him, but weaker than ZZ with full equipment.

Frankly, it doesn't matter if ZZ is level 100 and fully kitted with Divine equipment. Nazarick can still crush her with ease and almost no losses unless she's got a full party of similarly strong characters fighting on her side. There is no way she is stronger than Touch-Me, and that means that she loses just to Rubedo (though actually unleashing Rubedo in the middle of the Theocracy would probably result in extermination).

So this is a largely academic discussion, it doesn't really matter exactly how strong she is. But she's significantly weaker than Shalltear fighting seriously with full equipment rather than indulging her 'play' instincts.